In this episode Dylan Ogline, CEO of Ogline Digital shares examples of niche marketing and how we can draw inspiration to create predictable profits.
Some topics we discussed include:
- What is niche marketing
- Why digital agencies should go niche instead of full service
- Examples of niche marketing – what does it look like for agencies and other companies
- How to find a niche market
- How to identify your strengths and interests
- Best ways to conduct industry research
- How to get to know your ideal customer using examples of niche marketing
- How to solve a customers problem and how it relates to getting a perfect quality score on Google AdWords
- How to target and reach your market
- Rethinking how you spread the word about your business
- The best ways to monitor the competition
- The best ways to listen to your customers
- When to consider new opportunities or partnerships
- and much more
Vinay Koshy 0:00
You've probably heard that going niche is a good idea. In this episode we'll be examining what niche marketing is and looking at certain examples of niche market. Look, if you're in an industry that feels oversaturated with other businesses and competitors standing out can sometimes seem impossible. But differentiating your brand in a crowded market is achievable with niche marketing, and make some marketing strategies that target a broad range of potential customers. niche marketing focuses on a specific segment of customers that are most likely to connect with your business.
Our guest has built a successful business around this concept and teaches others about it. He is the CEO of ogling digital in 2016, he scrapped over 10 business projects and started focusing on one single thing, digital marketing, died from struggling and making no progress while working from his freezing basement. Not to mention nearly a million dollars in debt, it was an uphill climb. The key to success was five years. Four years later, he built online digital into a seven figure agency generating over a million in sales. Three years of running, he's now a leading expert in direct response advertising and business growth, and has turned his focus to helping other people start and grow their own hyper profitable digital agency. Dylan Ogline, welcome to the podcast.
Dylan Ogline 1:29
Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
Vinay Koshy 1:31
Pleasure. Dawn, you've had quite a quite an experience. But focus you said it was a key thing to your success. But I'm curious, what would you say is your personal area of strength?
Dylan Ogline 1:45
Personal area of strength? Oh, you're throwing you're throwing me a curveball here at the beginning. Personal area of strength. This is this is Josh This is gonna this is gonna sound like self serene, almost. But I would just say this is gonna sound egotistical. Oh, man, I feel bad. I'm gonna go with it. I'm gonna say just relentless determination, which I let me add the little context. I think most most business owners think you have to you have to have that you have to just be a little bit crazy and just have that little bit of just relentless determination. And yeah, I can that feels like you threw me a curveball here that I was not expecting?
It's a great question. But yeah, I would say I personally I strength is just I don't give up I guess. Then we come back to that and see what
Vinay Koshy 2:40
the end of the show. No worries. But from a business point of view. Would you say that there's anything that businesses don't know in that area of personal strength that they should?
Dylan Ogline 2:52
with, with like the determination?
Vinay Koshy 2:54
Dylan Ogline 2:54
Know what, this is actually a very good question. I did not expect this. It's starting to show off this way. And no, I think I think this is great stuff. I, I think that especially like small business owners, I've seen this a lot because I work now with students who are starting their, their own businesses. And they they view the element of, you know, that kind of badge of honor of working hard. You know, I mentioned, I mentioned before, like, I think that's something that's a strength I have, but I think a lot of business owners have that. And I think that that is like kind of built into the allure of the the the kind of mystical vision of being an entrepreneur, a lot of people are like, Oh, yeah, of course, I can do the work. So like, then they come in, like doing the work is not not hard for them. But there's also a determination element of not work ethic, but you got to be willing to invest in your business. And that one, I see a lot of people, they don't necessarily have that one. Okay, you got it. You got to be committed to just relentlessly investing in the business until you get it to work. I could probably talk an hour on that one. But I didn't expect that one coming up. Very good question. But I would say I would that would be my answer.
Vinay Koshy 4:20
You're very focused on this idea of doing niche and and building out an agency in particular in a niche market. Can you elaborate on that? I mean, what does it really mean to donations? It's talked about quite widely, but what does it really mean, whether it be from an agency perspective, or even mapping perspective?
Dylan Ogline 4:43
Sure, so it's, I'm a big fan of going as niched as possible. You so there's some people that use that that digital agency, you know, example some people will say, well, well, I'm just I'm building a digital agency like that's my niche. Wow. I would say go go a little bit further go one step further. And I would even argue go several steps further. So, okay, so you haven't digital agency, well, what services do you have? And then they'll be like, Well, I have this service, and I have this service and they're full service agency, okay, it's like, there's no way you're going to get really good at anything, because you're doing everything for everybody, your full service. So slim down, your offerings just become the best. It can be the best logo design agency, it could be just my case, it's just direct response, digital marketing, it could be the best web design agency, you got to get a little bit more slim, and more focused with your niche. And then take it again, another step and look at possibly can you go niche, not just with your service offering, but particular verticals or industries that you're working in. So say, this is an example I always use is your digital marketing agency that specializes in helping plumbing and heating companies or specializes in helping plastic surgeons, CPD to take it one step further than that? What about, you are a digital agency that specializes in direct response, digital marketing, for plastic surgeons in Florida, just keep going more and more specific. That's what it means when it comes to an agency with other businesses, you know, they could go in a million different directions, it's a little bit more, you know, you kind of have to evaluate what what your specific situation is, to properly. Yeah, to answer that.
Vinay Koshy 6:40
Okay. So the drawback of getting a full service, you say you can't really get known or differentiate in the market? Why is that given, there are some pretty big names out there?
Dylan Ogline 6:54
Well, I would say that there's three benefits against specifically with an agency and then these benefits would probably apply to a lot of other businesses, but it's gonna be a little bit different. But specifically, if you're running an agency, there's really three, three main benefits. The first is that you simply get better at what you're doing. If you're a full service agency, you're doing everything for everybody everywhere, you're never going to be the best at everything for everybody everywhere. And that's not going to happen. But if you are specifically helping plastic surgeons in Florida with their direct response to digital marketing, pretty quickly, you could probably get the get to be the best in the world at that. Again, this can apply in many different in many different industries in many different markets, many different niches. But But that is the the first benefit is that you get better, because you're only helping one specific type of client on one specific type of service. Beyond that, the other two benefits really are, it makes your operations easier. Again, from an agency perspective, if you're doing everything for everybody, you're reinventing the wheel. Every time you're doing a new project or offering a new service, you have to learn more about that industry to properly provide the service. And if you're doing all these different services, your operations become clunky, because everybody's bouncing around doing all these different things. The third benefit, which for me is probably probably the best is that it makes client attraction or client acquisition easier. If you if you go to a plastic surgeon and you say, Hey, we are a full service marketing agency, we can help you with everything and we help everybody. Okay, like, kind of sounds appealing. But if you go to a plastic surgeon and you say we specifically help plastic surgeons in Florida, grow their practice and get more. I don't know what plastic surgeons want more patients, I guess they want more patients, we specifically help plastic surgeons in Florida, grow their practice and get more patients with direct response digital marketing. That sounds a little bit more appealing to that plastic surgeon. So those are the three benefits. Okay.
Vinay Koshy 9:15
Excellent. And points worth noting, again, with this idea of niche marketing, could you give us an example of what it looks like if someone's wanting to start out or say, Okay, I'm full service currently. And it's not working very well. How do I optimize things? How would you work work your way through a process or a framework in order to find an area that you could niche into?
Dylan Ogline 9:44
How so so you're asking how how would you determine what niche to go after? This is a great question. This is probably the most common question I get from students is, you know, where do you know? Okay, I get your point here about this whole niching thing, but I don't know About plastic surgeons, the, the kind of seek the first thing you want to do, I always recommend going for low hanging fruit. And what this means is, if you already have experience as an agency owner or doing similar type of work, just look at your previous clients, maybe they are plastic surgeons, maybe they are plumbing and heating companies, maybe there's a common similarity between previous clients that you have worked with. And just just look at that and be like, who was the client that I got the best results with or that I had the best relationship with more than I made the most money with? Just look for those kinds of markers on your previous clients. But maybe you don't have that option. Maybe you've, you're starting from scratch, you have no experience in marketing, you have no experience in this business model, you're starting from scratch. Look, just look at your personal life. Maybe you maybe you have parents, maybe your dad's an accountant. Okay, well, maybe you can ask him some questions about whatever accounting firms looking for. Maybe you have a good friend who, in my particular case, one of the niches that I target is plumbing heating companies. That's an example of how I was used. I simply made friends with somebody who was in that industry. And, and you don't need to know a lot. This is key. People think that you need to know everything about a niche. All you need is just a little bit of knowledge to give you that edge when you're reaching out to those potential people. So I'll give you an example. The plumbing and heating companies. Yep. Because I knew a friend who was in that industry, just over beers, I think it was we just went I was like, Hey, man, you want to go grab a burger and beers. And we just started talking about work. And he mentioned that he hated doing repair projects, he preferred to do new installs. So somebody is getting a new furnace installed, or a new air conditioning, you know, each vac system in their house, those projects are a lot simpler, the profit margin is a lot higher, you go out and you're not trying to diagnose a problem. It's just like, Hey, here's the solution, boom, it's really easy. So all I knew going into that was plumbing heating companies, they prefer install projects, not repairs. So I simply created a landing page that said, you know, we specifically help plumbing heating companies grow and get more install projects with direct response to digital marketing. That was it. That's all I needed to know, is just that little bit of information. So when I spoke to Plumbing Companies, it was like, wow, this guy actually knows something about my industry, like, okay, he actually knows what he's talking about. That's all the talk. And most of the time that that is it, that's just knowing that little bit of informational advantage, and customizing your message to your potential client. That's it. That's all it takes.
Vinay Koshy 13:09
Okay, so in terms of getting the message out there, you send me refined your message with the chat with your friend to to help create the copy that was required. And the landing page, of course, you did a bit of research through that conversation as well. In terms of service delivery, are you going to use techniques and methodology that you're familiar with? Or would you recommend going with linear new skill set?
Dylan Ogline 13:44
Try to in the beginning, I think every everything is going to be new to you. But in my particular case, I knew I had experience with Facebook ads, I had experience with Google ads. So I reached out to these clients, and it was, Hey, I'm gonna help you with your direct response to digital marketing. And I, I recommend, this is where, you know, I mentioned the first benefit is that you get better. So I got really, really good at helping so many companies with Google ads, and with Facebook ads. That's like all you know, now we do a little bit of YouTube, but I really recommend just try to stick to just a few select offerings and just get better and better and better than just keep hitting it unusual. You build your skill set. Does that answer your question?
Vinay Koshy 14:34
I think yeah. So start with something that you feel comfortable with and then build out from there would be my takeaway.
Dylan Ogline 14:42
If you if you have the ability to Yeah, if you know if you're building a digital agency and you have no experience with Google ads and Facebook ads, you are going to have to step outside of your comfort zone sure. But if you if you stick to things that you know work, and you know, that you can get your potential clients results with, then just keep just stick with that.
Vinay Koshy 15:07
Getting to know your customers. I mean, part of it is outreach. But how would you go about developing a system that allows you to get customers on a regular basis? So let's take the plumbing, in fact, example. Yes, you could potentially reach out to a few people to get your initial few clients when you go from there, because I had another guest on the podcast Who said that? If you don't have a referral business, you have no business? Would you agree with that? Or?
Dylan Ogline 15:44
No, I would, I like to refer to refer to referrals as icing on the cake. It's okay. If you if you don't, if your entire business is based off of referrals, you don't know when, if you're looking to expand or if you lose a client, a client gets bought out, I've had that happen or anything like that. You don't know when the next clients come in? Whenever. So it doesn't give you confidence in your business. So I referrals are great, but I don't think that that is a reliable and predictable path to growth. I think it's it's very unreliable. So for me, it's it's very simple. It's not a great answer, because it's so simple. But just google ads. Google Ads simply simply work, especially because in my particular case, I have a high margin business. So when you know, when we get a client, we're providing an ongoing service. So we have recurring revenue from them, if we continue to grow for them, and we're getting them results with the amount of income we're getting from them is going to grow and grow. So onboarding the client is once we get them on board, and we get them success. Typically, it's a very profitable long term. So spending a couple 100 bucks to get leads and get conversations, going with people on Google Ads is very worth it. And it's predictable. It's extremely scalable. If you have the ability to use Google versus Facebook, I've recommend Google first and foremost, because it's so scalable, easy and simple.
Vinay Koshy 17:35
How do you begin to differentiate start with with your various clients, because at some point, each plumbing and HVAC company could potentially be offering the same kinds of services, or be chasing the same kind of business, as you know, we prefer to do installs as opposed to repairs.
Dylan Ogline 17:55
So in our particular case, we try to keep clients out of the each client is differently, we do have clients who are looking to grow nationwide. So that makes it a little bit more difficult. The only thing I don't only work in deployment and in heating vertical, but it typically those kinds of companies are regional based. So you might have a company that's working, say, I don't have I live in Orlando, but I don't have any clients in Orlando, but they might just be in the Orlando or Central Florida area. They're not really competing with a company that's in, say, Miami, or they're certainly not competing with a client, or a company that's in, say, Atlanta, or Charlotte, or something like that. So that kind of regional, regional separation really helps. And again, because I have such a, in this particular industry, that profit margins are very high for just a few clients. So I need to lead several 100 clients to a profitable agency, you know, it's just a fee.
Vinay Koshy 19:03
Okay. But would you actually spend time with the client in order to refine the value proposition? and use that as a key differentiator in their ongoing campaigns?
Dylan Ogline 19:17
No. In my particular case, we don't really have to because because we get really specific with their marketing. No, I practice what I preach with the client as well. So So I tell them, like, get very specific. They're used to doing say, billboard ads, and they'll have a billboard ad and it says, we do this and we do this, and we do that and we do this. And you know, We service all these areas, and we do repairs and we do installs, we recommend, you know, like, just have a Facebook ad that's just talking about new h fac systems, you know, just new air conditioning. Then that's it, just run your ads for that and just run that Those potential customers to a landing page that's just talking about a new energy efficient boiler or heater or furnace or something like that. It's niching down, I'm helping my clients niche down to help them raise customers as well. So again, I practice what I preach.
Vinay Koshy 20:20
Okay? I'm assuming that because you're running ads, there is an element of testing in adjustment and rinse and repeat. How does that play out in? from initial initial perspective?
Dylan Ogline 20:34
Let's dive in a little bit more than what do you what do you mean, exactly?
Vinay Koshy 20:36
So So how would how intensive does the testing and adjustment process need to be? Because it's one thing to say, for example, you're you have this landing page, specifically targeting people in the H HVAC industry that wanted to install instruments as opposed to repairs?
Dylan Ogline 20:57
Vinay Koshy 20:59
Great. You've got a few clients, it's probably working well, could we do better? There's something needs to be tweaked. How do you go about working through all that.
Dylan Ogline 21:11
So typically, if if you're using Facebook, the tweaking process is more just, it's getting to the point. It's taken years for Facebook to get to this level. But it's, it's it's gotten to the point where it's just about the algorithm now. So you are with when when most people are thinking and marketing and tweaking and getting better results, they're thinking about making the copy a little bit better. And if you're doing AdWords and things like that, there's certainly there's certainly a few elements there, you need to get a little bit better with your landing page, you need to get a little bit better with your the keywords you're targeting with, with what your title of your ads is all that good stuff. There were certainly a large element there. The fact that I helped my clients niche down, so they have a landing page that's only talking about site installs, or just talking about one product or service, that that's 90% of the game right there. That's right, that's 10% of the effort that's getting them 90% of the result. So that already is a huge element. When it comes to Facebook. The the quick 22nd explanation of what we do is essentially we create multiple variations of the image, the ad copy itself, and then different audiences, right, and we throw up like 500 600 different ads. Again, this is the 22nd really quick explanation. Yep. And you have all these different ads, multiple different ad sets, etc, etc. And you're just testing which one works the best.
Vinay Koshy 22:59
Dylan Ogline 23:01
And you let the algorithm figure out which one works the best. And, and then once you figure out the, you know, the top 50 Okay, then you create multiple variations of that, and you just keep tweaking it. And, and just just that level, get this it is the 90% with Facebook. Okay, does that make does that 20 cent 22nd explanation makes sense?
Vinay Koshy 23:26
I'm presuming there's a level of automation in order to throw up that kind of volume of ads and things or at least with with Facebook. But yeah, with Google ads, correct me if I'm wrong, because it's been a little while since I've drilled down into AdWords, I believe it's more about the quality score, in order to keep your overall cost per acquisition down and ensure conversions. Right. Yep. So is there? I'm assuming that you may have to do some work on the landing page of your client sites? Or is it just primarily throw up an ad? And do with along with the phone number and then track calls into into the customers?
Dylan Ogline 24:11
So I would say, is a good question. I ruthlessly practice the 8020 method with everything. I'm always looking for that 8020 rule. What's the secret there? With with Google, it was the quality score matters. And I think that stuff like getting your quality score really high, which you need to at least have a I don't even know what the numbers are. Off the top of my head. I don't know what they need to be. But yeah, I mean, you don't want to write a an ad that has nothing to do with the keyword and the landing page has nothing to do with the keyword you need a little bit there. But there there are people who you know, they want to get a perfect they want to get all that stuff perfect. To me. That's the 80% of the effort that's going to give you 20% of the results. Me the 8020 when it comes to what to Google what's going to get To the best results for the least amount of effort. The kind of hack that I use is writing ads that purposely get people to not click on them. I want to, I want to push away people from clicking on the ad, and only get the right kind of people to click on the ad. So say say you're doing this, use this use the plumbing, he know that she's a plastic surgeon, because this is probably what would work better. I don't actually know what plastic surgeons charge. But you, you would write an ad that would say, presuming that you're working with a high end plastic surgeon, which is probably the kind that's going to be paying for, for Google ads, you would run up write an ad that says you know minimum patient spend is, which is not the correct term. I don't know what the actual term would be. But minimum spend is $5,000, or $10,000. You would want to push away the people that are looking for like $20 boat, Botox injections. If you're a plumbing heating company, you want to push away the people that are looking for the $50 an hour repairs or the quick $100 new AC units. You want to write ads specifically targeting the kind of clients that you want, and specifically pushing away the people that you don't want, I see with with Google for some reason. And I think it's probably because they're thinking in terms of Facebook, people will write ads, trying to get people to click on them. I don't want people to click on my ads, unless they are the right kind of person. Right? Does that make sense?
Vinay Koshy 26:45
Yep. So correct me if I'm wrong, might take away takeaway would be that you're really targeting people who are at the buying stage, at least for Google ads, and really want to ignore the education and all those segments and just really focusing on buying stage, what would that be? Correct?
Dylan Ogline 27:05
That is certainly so so. So you're referring to kind of like the buying pyramid? Where
Vinay Koshy 27:13
Yeah, so if you think about the your traditional sales sales funnel, whether it be...
Dylan Ogline 27:17
the people who are looking to buy now, so So yes, yeah, you certainly want to push away the people that are just looking for, like brief education. We also for the type of marketing that we're doing, we're typically working with, we're not working with the low end solution, because the low end low margin, businesses probably can't afford to do Google ads, Facebook ads, we're working with the mid to high tier. So you know, the the person that's going to be willing to pay $5,000 for a new furnace $10,000 for a new furnace in their house. A plastic surgeon who's looking their average client is spending $10 per patient is spending $10,000, something like that. So so it's it's kind of going to stages there. Yes, we want the people who are looking to buy now or considering to buy within like the next month maybe. And then we're also looking for that mid to high tier of the market.
Vinay Koshy 28:21
That certainly helps. What about competition? Because let's say you're running an agency that's targeting these plastic surgeons, but you've got in the Orlando area, primarily. But you do a bit of a Google search and discover, oh, this, there's another three, who pretty much wanting the same kind of client. What do you do that? And how do you handle competition?
Dylan Ogline 28:48
So we, personally, I mentioned earlier, regionally, we wouldn't accept a client. If we knew that say that plastic surgeons only working in the Orlando area, we wouldn't accept any other plastic surgeons and say, the Central Florida area. But let's say that, you know, going a step further that said that they There are also other plastic surgeons working with other agencies, that goes down to helping the client themselves try to niche down and get more specific, because it's most likely isn't a plumbing heating example. Most of the plumbing and heating companies that are saying in Orlando, their ads, their copy their landing pages are probably mentioning all these different services that they provide. Whereas will create an ad that just differentiates itself by simply just saying, it's only talking about installing new AC units. Very few people are practicing that right now. Right most billboards for plumbing heating companies mentions all kinds of services that Do. So again, this is where it comes down to we we, I practice, what I teach is, I want my clients to also create, which we write the ads for them, we write the ads, and then we create the landing page where we work with them, we talk to them about what they need and whatnot, but we'll talk to them will be like we're going to create a landing page is only going to talk about this one thing, we know that you will offer other stuff. But we just want to focus on this one thing. And that'll help it convert better. Because simply in the minds of the mind of the consumer, the end consumer, the end customer, just simply that landing page or that ad, that's just talking about what your specific problem is, just makes it seem like you have the solution, because you're only talking about that one problem. Like what, like most plumbing heating companies, they do a bunch of different services. But if your ad is just talking about one single thing in the mind of the consumer, it just makes it seem like because this person is only talking about one thing, they probably have the solution I'm looking for.
Vinay Koshy 31:09
So removing the Paradox of Choice.
Dylan Ogline 31:12
Vinay Koshy 31:14
Yes, certainly, with With that in mind, we've talked about, you know, handling competition advertising, but I'm thinking if, let's say you run a content, Madden business, you obviously want to eat your own dog food, so to speak, by investing in content mapping of not just for your client, but for yourself as well. sure that what you're suggesting, by way of advertising is is obviously a very quick process of gaining some traction and some increase, increase coming through. For someone else who is probably dealing with SEO content or something of that nature. Should we expect a longer lead time to acquire clients as they build out their own portfolio that attracts the niche that they're going after? Or would you recommend using your method, get get some ads up there and play? Play the content game over time?
Dylan Ogline 32:19
So So you're saying, let's say you're an SEO agency? Yep. You're just doing SEO? Should you also do Google ads? Or should you just be trying to get clients via Seo? So you're asking?
Vinay Koshy 32:29
Dylan Ogline 32:29
Because if you're doing SEO in most instances, it does take a bit of time to go. 100%? Yeah. Yeah. No, I yes, I would, I would practice both. And I think with that, it's if you are, those are actually two really good examples there. The content, just say you're a content creation agency, or you're an SEO agency. If If you have, I'm from Orlando, so let's say that you are. You're an SEO agency in Orlando, and like your homepage is like SEO agency, Orlando, if if you are not, in the top results for for for your keyword for what your businesses, that's probably, that's probably gonna look bad on your heart. If you have a content creation agency, you're doing content creation for your clients, and you have no content, you're not putting out any content, that probably looks bad. And you still can probably get success. And you can probably still get clients with with ads with Google ads on both in both cases, but I don't think you necessarily have to just use that method to be getting clients, you could if you had a content creation agency, and you're doing billboard ads or TV ads, that does I don't think that matters. You just have to kind of be doing what you're what you're selling to a certain certain extent.
Vinay Koshy 34:02
What about new opportunities and partnerships to increase your leads that are coming in?
Dylan Ogline 34:11
So I'm not particularly the best person to answer because I don't like partnerships, as I mentioned, not only partnerships, just because for me, if you if you understand that just a little bit about my story, I wasted a lot of time doing too many different things. Yeah. And I'd got nowhere like wasted 12 proximately 12 years of my life, making very little not sleeping, not knowing what a vacation was getting absolutely nowhere because I was doing way too many things. So I probably go a little bit too far to the other side of key, you know, keeping things ridiculously simple, just ruthlessly cutting at 22 every single element of my life is trying to do, I believe that the only way to do more is to do less. Yeah. So I practice that. So So yeah, I would not be the great person answer this question because because now I've gotten to the point where like, I don't want to look at any opportunities, I don't want to look at any partnerships, which is probably not the best thing I would add, I would add this is Don't, don't be looking for new opportunities. Unless you have maxed out what you're already doing, I think that that's probably a good filter, right there. If you if you can't grow your you know, your agency anymore, or grow your business anymore, and that and your current vertical, your current industry, your current service, or offering, then maybe consider partnerships and opportunities. But But if you if you still have a lot of room to grow, you're not doing you haven't ramped your marketing up to to 100% yet, then I think it's probably not a good idea to be considering new opportunities, new partnerships, etc. that that's probably a very good filter to have that makes all the sense.
Vinay Koshy 36:15
Certainly, is there an aspect of niche marketing that we haven't covered as yet, but you feel is important?
Unknown Speaker 36:24
No, I think we I would add this that I know what I am describing. When I talk about my business, when I talk about how I view marketing, all that stuff. A lot of people, I get feedback until it can't be that simple. You gotta be kidding me. Right? I believe in practicing the basics and the fundamentals and just getting better and better and better at that stuff. And that's, that's the best way to get far. And not trying to make it complicated. You know, I talked about like, the 8020 with, you know, trying to get your ad copy to be perfect. And your, your quality score. And again, I don't even I don't even know, they still do that. Because Google Ads anymore, cuz I don't look at that stuff. That's the that's the really trying to get the advance really complicated stuff. And I just I I'm really against that I'm really trying to, I teach people really stick to the fundamentals. And I again, I know it sounds simple. But if you practice just a few basic roles, and you get really good at the fundamentals, you'll go really far. And it's really complicated and really difficult to get good at the advanced stuff, when it's only going to move the needle a little bit.
Vinay Koshy 37:53
sure if that makes sense.
Dylan Ogline 37:54
I think that makes sense.
Vinay Koshy 37:55
Yeah, I guess I said, Yeah. So if you were listening to this episode, what would you say is your top takeaway? Oh, this is a good question.
Dylan Ogline 38:08
Wow, I really need to keep my marketing simple. Okay. I really need to niche down. That would be my takeaway. I think I think that would be
Vinay Koshy 38:17
excellent. Doing this. This has been really insightful in terms of getting really focused in on just a specific thing that you want to do. So I think that's, that's a value to both myself and to listeners as well. But if listeners are curious and do want to find out more and connect with you, where would you recommend they head to?
Dylan Ogline 38:40
Just to my website, Dylan O'Brien dot com. And again,
Vinay Koshy 38:45
I will include a link to that in the show notes. No, thanks so much for this.
Dylan Ogline 38:50
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
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