How to Advertise Your Business Easily at Scale to Drive Business Growth

Pamela Wagner 0:00
So here the most overlooked metric is frequency. And in Google, you can actually cap the frequency for display remarketing campaigns, for example, or video campaigns, where you can say, hey, only show this ad once a week to the user, right a once a month, right or stop showing if someone has seen it more than twice. On Facebook. That's a metric that you can observe or like you can set up a reach campaign, you can say automatically from the beginning, the maximum number that someone sees the ads is like two or three times, right. So this is usually the easiest way to actually have a control over that and make sure you don't annoy customers.

Vinay Koshy 0:39
Hi, and welcome to the predictable b2b success podcast. I am Vinay Koshy. On this podcast, we interview people behind b2b brands who aren't necessarily famous, but do work in the trenches and share their strategies and secrets as they progress along this journey of expanding their influence and making their businesses grow predictably. Now, let's dive into the podcast Success for Small businesses come down to two things, one, offering a product or service at a price people are willing to pay for, to getting the offer in front of the right people. Most people get the first button right, but the second can be quite tricky. You need to know how to advertise your business or how to promote your business effectively in order to get the offer in front of the right people. Advertising your business could be a solution. But it can be a very expensive solution. And an easy way to burn through a truckload of money. If you do not know what you're doing. Our guest uses a past experiences and knowledge to combat a lack of knowing how to advertise your business effectively. Or she heads a gel digital a global boutique marketing agency that works with six and seven figure companies on their advertising campaigns. Adele digital is a Google partner that has helped over 2000 advertisers grow their businesses through custom paid ad strategies. Prior to find founding the company in early 2016 she worked at Google and in other industries as well. Since 2018, she began teaching paid ads at the Vienna University of Economics and Business and how to courses on the same topic at Hult International Business School in London and Boston. In 2017. She was honored as one of Forbes 30 under 30 list makers for Austria, Germany and Switzerland. Also, insights have been featured on media outlets such as ABC News, Forbes, Yahoo, Mashable, and many more. And well, Wagner. Welcome to the podcast.

Pamela Wagner 2:53
Thank you so much, Vinay. It's a pleasure to be here.

Vinay Koshy 2:56
No worries. pleased to have you. Pamela, I'm curious, why did you start Ajala Digital? What was the problem that you were trying to solve?

Pamela Wagner 3:05
Sure. So I think, first of all, you know, I learned a lot during my time at Google, right. And I learned a lot around like Google ads, analytics. And once I left the company, I was wondering what I could really contribute in this big field of marketing, because I thought that it were already so many marketing companies out there, there are already so many fish in the sea. What is one more gonna make it their friends here, right? So I was like, Well, anyway, like, I gotta do something, right. So let me just take on the first project and see if my skills are useful. And so I took on the first projects by going on Upwork, right, by letting my network know that I'd be available. And I got the first project in around like Google ads, Google Analytics, and focused on doing work doing really good work. So rather taking on fewer projects, but delivering really high quality work. And then my hope was that those people would then refer me to new projects, right? That this way I would grow. Now, about four months after I'd left Google, I'd made more money in a month that I made at Google. So I thought, okay, like, I figured out how to go this far. If I was able to do this, then probably I'm also going to be able to figure out how to make it scalable and sustainable as a business. So and that, despite the fact that none of my parents have finished university, none of my parents had, you know, created their own company. So there were a lot of first steps. And so yeah, I was like, Okay, let me let me create this company and let me embark on this journey of entrepreneurship. And it's been almost Yeah, pretty much five years now that I've been running the company from pretty much anywhere in the world.

Vinay Koshy 4:50
And Pamela, what would you say given your journey is your personal area of strength?

Pamela Wagner 4:57
I would definitely say that that is my mindset. So literally whatever I dream, whatever I want to do, I'm very resourceful. And I come up with ways of how to make it happen. So I really know how to like program my mind and work with my brain. So it supports any endeavor that I have.

Vinay Koshy 5:17
And what would you say something that businesses don't know, but should in that personal area of strength?

Pamela Wagner 5:25
I think that business owners should really be aware of that their current business is just a reflection of their own personality and thoughts and beliefs. So if they're not happy about where they are, then they need to think about Okay, what is it that I'm not happy in terms of with my beliefs? What is? What is hindering me? What is? What is where am I actually being my own obstacle? Right? And how can I change it? How can I overcome that?

Vinay Koshy 5:53
Would you say that the barriers are more mental than then actually means or physical?

Pamela Wagner 5:59
Literally, yes. Because honestly, we have all the resources out there there we need,

Vinay Koshy 6:04
Certainly. And the internet certainly is a leveler in terms of the playing field. Absolutely. I would agree with you there, Pamela. So you've started Ajala digital. And there are obviously many businesses that looked at advertising, perhaps sooner rather than later. But is advertising really for every business?

Pamela Wagner 6:26
So I think every every business needs to advertise at some point, right? If they don't engage in some sort of advertising, how are people going to know about their services? There are, of course, a few businesses where in the beginning, you started off with working with referrals, right? But you got to come to a point where referrals might not be enough, or you might want to extend, extend or increase your impact. And in that case, you will, at one point or another have to consider advertising.

Vinay Koshy 6:57
Sure, okay. But would you say that every business, if they're wanting to scale, irrespective of where they're at in terms of maturity, would be ready for an advertising program.

Pamela Wagner 7:10
So it depends on what kind of advertising we're talking about, right? Because the field is super big. So as an example, search engine optimization is something I would do from the very beginning. Because you can start writing blogs, as you create your website, you can optimize your site for mobile, right? Whereas ads is something I would actually only do a little bit later, if you already have like a proven business model, if you got money coming in, right. And you really, you really can pick up people when they start coming to your website and, and convert them into paying customers or subscribers and so on.

Vinay Koshy 7:49
So you're saying that when you talk about a proven business model, you're not just talking about being able to make sells offline, but that they should also be able to convert them via the website?

Pamela Wagner 8:03
Yes, absolutely. That's super key. So of course, there still, you know, like a lot of mom and pop stores and physical stores. But it's key that you really make use of your website, because almost everyone is online, right? Like an internet penetration. And no matter what country in the world is growing, right, it's people not going more offline, they're going more online. And it's literally in situations of boredom, when people are waiting, the first thing they do is grab their phone, right browse through Facebook, then it could see an ad of a product they interested in, or they've checked out a product or service that a friend told them about. And it's really important in those moments to be there so that you start getting into into people's minds. And then of course, there's other strategies to be there when people really need you and are looking for your service a product.

Vinay Koshy 8:51
Certainly, okay. So a proven business model, a website that's optimized for for SEO and perhaps being mobile responsive. That's that's very key in that day and age plus a proven online sales funnel. would those be the requisites?

Pamela Wagner 9:10
Yes, absolutely. And, of course, some sort of a budget where you are okay with spending it without any return in the beginning, because at least if when you're getting started, right, there's gonna be a lot of new things you you cannot say, okay, the campaign is gonna work out for sure, because you haven't done ads yet. So if you don't feel comfortable with at least investing some money that you could lose, then it's not yet the right moment to get started with ads.

Vinay Koshy 9:36
Would you say that there's a budget that people should have in mind in in terms of this idea of being able to test out advertising and to see what works?

Pamela Wagner 9:49
So in terms of good budget, I would I would usually tell people to at least schedule about one from 1.5 to 2k dollars per month, right in that's Quarter because of quarter usually gives you enough enough opportunity to really test different settings of campaigns, different audiences, different ads different ad copy, right? And so that's really enabled you to say, okay, is is this kind of actionable something for me? if so how am I going to use it? And if not, okay, let's continue with the next one. Let's drop this.

Vinay Koshy 10:21
Now you were talking about being present when people are viewing various forms of content by that I'm taking away the fact that advertising or you look at advertising as an extension of a conversation or relationship as opposed to corruption.

Pamela Wagner 10:41
Yes. So advertising is, I guess, let me take a bad example first. So we all are aware of the fact that we have bought shoes, a situation where we've bought shoes, or we bought a flight. And then literally a minute or a day later, we see ads about shoes and flights. Now, in that case, of course, it's more of an annoyance, that's not useful to us. And it's also not useful to the advertiser, because we're just going to get annoyed by the company and more most likely not going to buy again. So it's really keen those moments to target people that might have not yet purchased something, or maybe exclude people who have already purchased something, right. And a lot of people often don't know or forget how to do that.

Vinay Koshy 11:24
Okay, so how do we do that? Because let's say wanting to purchase a flight to a particular destination, I go on to maybe a few comparison sites, and then maybe even check out a few travel agencies before I finally make my purchase. How would the sites that from which I haven't made the purchase, know whether I, whether I bought a ticket or not? Because more often than not, I see them advertising on sites.

Pamela Wagner 11:54
Yeah, so here, it's key that you select the right audiences. So for example, in Google, you can select in market audiences, which are people that are that have purchased something or about to purchase something that's very much related to your product. Or you can target people who are just interested in something with so called affinity audiences, right? Or you can also exclude people, right. So you can exclude people who have recently purchased something, and that way you avoid actually having an ad pop up in front of them.

Vinay Koshy 12:23
Okay, so the better way to look at this is to use a an advertising platform like Google, which would have a lot of insights in order to better target your marketing.

Pamela Wagner 12:35
Exactly, yes. So a lot of times, you already have audiences preset there. So you actually don't need to, you know, do all the work of like researching whatever, but you can already select those people, and they're

Vinay Koshy 12:48
Certainly, okay. There are people who have been burnt by agencies, you know, and it's a bit like burning through a truckload of money very quickly, what would you say to them? Because you're run an advertising agency, but how would you say what would you say to people who have been through bad experiences in the past?

Pamela Wagner 13:09
So I think what we need to understand here is how how most advertising agencies get found and get created. Now, the problem here is that many people crave usually a web development agency or like an SEO agency. And then they see that, you know, maybe ads could also be relevant for the client. And then either they start outsourcing those ads to yet another agency, without them actually knowing about it, or they hire someone who's supposed to know about it. But because the owner themselves at a founder themselves does know about ads, they can't make an educated decision about who to hire, right. And then the person that they hire supposed to do a good job, but the person that they've hired can also not say that they don't know something, because then they are afraid of getting fired. So you have this whole vicious circle, right, that it's very difficult to get out of. But that is often the cause of why people get disappointed. Why there was a lot of miscommunication because the company hires the agency, because they assume that the agency knows stuff better than they do. But oftentimes, the agency doesn't even know it better than they do. But of course, they're not going to communicate that. And I think the other problem we have here is actually the revenue model of agencies where a lot of agencies literally charge, so a lot of bills come in late. And so they run into cashflow problems, and in order to then save those cash flow problems. They then take on more clients, but those clients would actually not be a good fit, but they bring in the money short term. So that also of course, creates troubles.

Vinay Koshy 14:48
So what would be the things to watch out for I mean, you're a Google partner would that kind of partnership be an indicator of the fact that the agency should know what they're doing.

Unknown Speaker 15:02
So being able to partner is is one aspect. But I also always encourage people to actually really ask the agency about the most updated certificates because you need to renew your certificates every year. And a lot of people just do two certificates once and then you know, off the four years, they of course, don't have it anymore, but they still show the Google partner logo. So that's one aspect that I encourage people to ask for. The second aspect that I also encourage people to ask for is past references off similar work, right, similar case studies, like, have you actually delivered results in an industry that is similar to the one I'm looking for, right. And the third aspect then will be, don't make any promises. Like if an agency tries to promises something run. in this industry, it's literally not possible to promise anything, because there's so many variables. So be really, really cautious when someone tries to promise you anything.

Vinay Koshy 16:00
Excellent. Thanks for that. Let's talk about advertising strategies. They're an example that you could talk us through, in perhaps in the b2b space, just that people were able to begin to wrap the idea around this concept of how do we look at a strategy that could work for us?

Pamela Wagner 16:18
Yeah, so I think, today, the what adds a lot of complexity here is that we have so many different business models, right, you can make money off, when you can make money online, you can start off with an email funnel, you can drive people directly to the website, you can drive people first to a webinar, and then offer them a course right, you can have people find you by an external websites like Udemy, right, and then have them come to your website. So there's really a lot of different models. What we find, of course, it's relevant for many businesses is just basic lead generation, right. And so for basic lead generation, we always recommend to have email marketing, whether you're a service based company or an e commerce company, email marketing is super, super important. And what works well for email marketing is if you do lead generation via Facebook, or Instagram ads, for example, right, and then you have people start getting on your list and offer them something right when you offer them a freebie. And then maybe you create a sequence of four or five emails, and then you can offer them another product, right? Maybe a lower cost product, or maybe offer them to hop on a call with you really depends on like, also the price point of your product price point of your services, and how you want to engage with your customer.

Vinay Koshy 17:40
What about companies that perhaps don't have a very visual product? You could almost say it's a bit boring. Let's say it's an analytics package? Would would you still recommend the Facebook and Instagram? Or would you suggest the slightly different approach?

Pamela Wagner 17:57
So are we talking about a software as a service? Or like,

Vinay Koshy 18:01
Yep, software as a service.

Unknown Speaker 18:01
Software as a service. Yeah, so with most software as a service companies, you would want to offer people a trial free trial, right? For a certain amount of time. And then so you focus on that lead generation to get people to start that free trial. And once they've started free trial, you know, work with emails, work with remarketing ads, and so on to then eventually get them to upgrade to the paid level.

Vinay Koshy 18:27
Okay, that would be the internal process. What about getting people to that free trial?

Pamela Wagner 18:34
For example, with Facebook ads, right, with Instagram ads, of course, some people also use blogs, right through SEO. So you just write articles and establish yourself as an authority in the industry. So these are kind of like the the most common ways that come to my mind right now.

Vinay Koshy 18:51
Have you seen much success with people using Instagram ads, especially with with a company like the SaaS that has a SaaS product, like an analytics package? I mean, it's not very visually sexy.

Pamela Wagner 19:02
Yeah, so the thing is, in the end, you you always speak to people's emotions, right? So I think Simon Sinek, or someone said that people buy emotions, not products. So whatever you offer, that's key. And what we've observed is that the cost per lead on Facebook and Instagram is usually cheaper than Google ads. But the leads you get through Google ads are usually the ones that are closer to buying and actually making a conversion in the end.

Vinay Koshy 19:29
Okay, two questions that come to mind. One, how do you decide on whether you should go with social media advertising search advertising, native advertising, or you know display advertising? How do you take your pick? Yeah, let's let's start with that.

Pamela Wagner 19:44
So it depends on so many different factors

Vinay Koshy 19:49
True, but could you help us begin to wrap our heads around the idea?

Pamela Wagner 19:53
I think Yeah, so if you if you easily have visual content, like if you're a product based company, right? Then try to get pictures of your product in in a lifestyle setting, right? So if you offer leggings don't just show the leggings but show how, you know maybe a woman is doing sports in them how a woman is packing her car with it, right? An example that comes to mind is a recent example of actually a very good advertising strategy for video Here comes from Ford. So they launched this new car model. And instead of saying, Oh, look at all the amazing aspects of this car. They actually showed a woman with her kids when she was coming out of a supermarket with her hands full. But how easy was for her to open up the back of the trunk of the car ride? How easy was for the kids to go inside? And she basically said, Oh, you know, it's, it's, it fits so greatly into my day because this car just makes my life easier. Right? And so if you can make that connection to people's lives, whether that's in an image or in a video, that is of tremendous value.

Vinay Koshy 21:01
Certainly. So being able to convey the story and evoke an emotion that you want to with your audience would be the way to go as opposed to choosing a specific advertising format.

Pamela Wagner 21:14
Absolutely, yes. Yes. Okay. So you got to be clear on on like the product you are solving. Sorry, the problem you're solving. Yeah. And and what emotions connect with that? Sure.

Vinay Koshy 21:26
Okay. What about retargeting? I've heard that retargeting is probably one of the most underutilized ways of re engaging 99% of the visitors who might come to your site, then leave without taking acting on your call to action. Have you seen your much success with that? What are your thoughts around retargeting?

Pamela Wagner 21:48
Yeah, so that figures absolutely correct. And a couple of other numbers I want to bring in here is that Google published published a study where 49% of people literally visited the website about three to four times before they made the purchase. And also we see that with our customers. So for example, for a normal ecommerce stores, for a new visitor, the ecommerce conversion rate would be about one 1.5%. And for returning visitors, it would be four or 5%, or even more. And also the returning visitors usually spend much more money, right. So there's a clear like the numbers give us a clear picture. If you retarget people, if you bring them back to your website, if you're already familiar with what you do, then that's going to result in much better purchases. So we literally do not have any single advertising account without a remarketing strategy or retargeting, right? So it is absolutely key to make use of that for your business. Anybody who's not making use of that you're losing out on people and your customers are getting and your competitors are getting all your best customers.

Vinay Koshy 22:56
So again, with this whole idea of retargeting, you're essentially trying to get your message across ensure to your potential future customer that you can solve their problem and evoke an emotion. I've seen companies retarget by showing the same sort of ad again and again, and again, what would you recommend to overcome that sort of annoyance, if you will, because that particular message doesn't necessarily resonate with with a person or they go, yeah, that's okay. But then after she, you know, third or fourth time to get started get annoyed.

Pamela Wagner 23:33
Yeah, so here are the most overlooked metric is frequency. And in Google, you can actually cap the frequency for display remarketing campaigns, for example, or video campaigns, where you can say, hey, only show this ad, once a week to the user, right a once a month, right? or stop showing it if someone has seen it more than twice on Facebook, that's a metric that you can observe or like you can set up a reach campaign, you can say automatically from the beginning, the maximum number that someone sees the ads is like two or three times, right. So this is usually the easiest way to actually have a control over that and make sure you don't annoy customers.

Vinay Koshy 24:13
But that would be for a particular ad, or ad set. Would that be correct?

Pamela Wagner 24:18
Yeah, ad set or campaigns?

Vinay Koshy 24:21
So do we need to potentially think about building out a whole series of these ads that speak to different pain points or different aspects of the story?

Pamela Wagner 24:35
Yeah, so that's what you'd usually do. And we'd also create new ads and adverts on average once a month, right or every second month. And then of course, test different audiences.

Vinay Koshy 24:49
So there's a bit of variety there. How do we I'm also assuming that you need to understand your audience cohorts. Would that be correct? Because you wouldn't want to show the same set of ads for all your audiences and presuming that you might have two to three different types of audiences with unique needs as well.

Pamela Wagner 25:12
Yeah. So for example, we have a kind of like a fitness gym, where company, and on their website, they featured images of women that were around like 25 years old. I mean, all looked great, right products look great on them. But once we got into Google Analytics, we saw that the people who spend the most money were women 45, and above. So now the company is actually starting to create images and get images that highlight women that are a little bit older. Right? And that that river sent that audience better. So yeah, of course, you just adjusted.

Vinay Koshy 25:51
Now the question I had was, how much of education is required, both for your clients, clients, who are on the receiving end of these ad campaigns, and for the client itself.

Pamela Wagner 26:05
So most indications needed for the client. We have that very transparent. So we usually have meetings every one or two weeks with the clients. And we take them through what we did, why we did it, so that also they can make better decisions. I really don't have any issue with us giving knowledge away, because it helps them understand their business better. It helps them establish trust with us, right? And it just makes a collaboration easier. Also, the other person knows what they're talking about.

Vinay Koshy 26:36
So would education be an integral part of a campaign and thinking of the example that we were talking about earlier of a sass company that probably has a analytics package, wherein they should really be looking at, you know, providing white papers or invitations to webinars as part of their whole retargeting campaign?

Pamela Wagner 27:00
Yeah, absolutely. So a common strategy is that you target new audiences with, for example, blog articles. And then you would retarget them with ads, where you'd invite them to join your next webinar, for example.

Vinay Koshy 27:13
Okay, there's certainly so the idea would be then, of course, to get them to sign up. And that allows the company to then lead score and prioritize certain leads over others.

Pamela Wagner 27:26
Yeah, and people are also what we call warmed up so that it's usually easy to to get them to convert or to take the action that you'd want them to take.

Vinay Koshy 27:34
So in terms of advertising, there is this element of retargeting in order to warm them up as you as you said, but is there in terms of approach, a need for us to think about an integrated marketing strategy? wherein we're not just saying, okay, you handle that advertising, and sales do what sales needs to do at marketing does what they need to do, but rather one where everyone's talking to each other? And looking at the metrics holistically?

Pamela Wagner 28:08
Yeah, so what you just mentioned is super important for companies, because I still hear a lot of complaints of that not being done, right. Now, for marketing, it's super important to get the numbers from sales back, right to get the feedback, what is what are the customers saying on the calls that they're maybe having? What are the words that they use to describe their problems, because then I can use those words to fit them into blog articles, to feed them into my ads, to speak even better and more targeted to my customers. So

Vinay Koshy 28:37
I have a server that will also indicate that, you know, other than your site itself, things like emails, email signatures, talks that you may give in live of live events, or in person events, etc, all of which should really be tuned into the same brand message. Would that be correct?

Pamela Wagner 28:56
Yeah, it's brand alignment is is, is a big problem still, these days. And the easiest way to solve it, what I tell people is, get a friend involved, get, you know, someone from an outside company involved, you know, distant colleague, former colleague or whatever, right? And it have them go through the customer experience and have them give you feedback. And most likely, they will see stuff much easier, that's not congruent. And you because you're already used to, to all these aspects of your company, you see it every day. And that's actually something that part of a brain takes care of the default mode network, it's makes us not see things that we're used to because it wants us to save energy and be efficient, right? But of course, if we want to improve things, that's not helpful, so literally, get outside help right to three people and most likely they will be easily able to pinpoint, hey, this is where you should be aligned. This is where I see different logos, this is where I see different messaging. And then you can fix that

Vinay Koshy 29:57
Is there a point at which a company has attained a certain level of authority and expertise or influence in the industry that makes it logical for advertising to be scaled up.

Pamela Wagner 30:15
I think if you want to scale, if you're interested in scaling, it's usually a question of, do you have the capacity? Either with people? Or can you produce more products? Right? So this is literally the things that that each company has to check. And when it's a yes, then you can scale.

Vinay Koshy 30:35
What about this idea of influence and authority? I mean, it's obviously a level of credibility, that helps with the conversion process, and that there is a bit more trust, because the authority that's conferred upon you as a brand and something I think you've you've invested in yourself being published in other articles, certainly teaching and speaking, what, from your experiences and perspective would be the best way to go about achieving that.

Pamela Wagner 31:03
So I think, you know, understanding whether you actually want to go down that route, because there's a lot of businesses that function really well without us even knowing about them existing. Right? So that's one thing. And then of course, there's another way if if people are really passionate about about a message that they want to bring across, right? If they really want to work with a lot of different people, then of course, it's important to get you out there. Now. It's in, in, in simple words, is the good old PR. and public relations still works. And I think it's still gonna work for a long time, because it provides people with social proof, right? And social proof is one of the main reasons why we make a purchase decision. So if we see that, hey, other people like this, other people say good things about it, or people that we consider as influences say something about it, we automatically consider it as good.

Vinay Koshy 32:05
Right? Okay, you're in Ghana, at the moment and I am assuming you're teaching, entrepreneurship or business courses is that correct?

Pamela Wagner 32:14
So I actually just finished teaching my course at the Vienna University of Economics. And that was remote because of the whole lockdown going on in Europe and all of that true. And here, I'm just hosting a couple of workshops, and kind of like escaping the cold enjoying the warm weather, jazz, you know, good foods.

Vinay Koshy 32:34
So I'm curious as to why why you're teaching, obviously, in Europe and America as well. And now in Africa, and yet, you've also built a bit of a reputation on major publications, what was the thought process or rationale behind it

Pamela Wagner 32:53
in terms of like, going to Ghana now?

Vinay Koshy 32:55
And not just Ghana, but you know, your desire to to teach and, and run workshops plus invest in other publications as well?

Pamela Wagner 33:05
Yeah. So I think one of the main reasons why I would want to why I wanted to teach or I would love to give on my knowledge is that, I mean, I've been a student, myself, and a lot of my time in university was boring, very boring, there's very little that I actually remember from it, very the light took away from it. And so me teaching at universities now is the attempt to give that back to make it better to show students that, hey, you can actually learn skills in university that that are relevant for the marketplace that are relevant for, for any job that you're applying for. And learning can be fun, right? Like, it's like, I just got that comment today from from one of the students where they said, you know, it actually felt that I was taking a professional course, it didn't even feel like I was in university because there was no professor, you know, just reading from slides, but it was so interactive, that they almost felt like they paid like a whole bunch of money to attend a professional course. And that feels really nice to hear. On the other hand, I also want to give them my knowledge, because there's still so much of a gap in terms of what needs to be done what people know. And I always say, I never want to can work with everybody in the world. Like, there's so much to do, and I'm more than happy to share my experience, share my knowledge, so other people can give that on to can help other businesses grow. And then and of course, maybe establish their own company, you know, or get that promotion and their job and so on. So, yeah, it's just, I think, also like a little bit of a desire of helping people live a better life in general.

Vinay Koshy 34:48
Okay, and help them on the journey?

Excellent. Pamela, is there an aspect of knowing how to advertise for your business that you feel we haven't quite covered or highlighted, but

Pamela Wagner 35:02
So I think I again, want to reiterate one aspect that a lot of companies often forget. So many companies often say, Oh, we have the cheapest product, our product can do this, my service can do this, right? Forget that. Tell me what problem you can solve for me. Right? Tell me how you can add value to my life. Because if you can tell me that, and you can create this emotional connection, that sale is going to happen much easier than if you just talk about your your you. Right?

Vinay Koshy 35:35
Okay. And depending on if you were listening to this episode, what would you say is your top takeaway?

Pamela Wagner 35:45
I think the top takeaway that I would want people to have is, invest in your website, first, really have a very good website and invest in the proper business model, before you end up spending any money on ads. Like there's a lot of ways to get your first customers and as a usually not the first option, actually. But they can be a good step. If you want to scale your business right then yeah, that can be a great option.

Vinay Koshy 36:14
No, this has been terrific. If listeners were curious and wanted to know more or connect with you, where would you recommend they head to?

Pamela Wagner 36:22
Sure. So on the one hand, of course, they can connect with me on LinkedIn, Pamela Wagner, you find me there. And then we have also created a kind of like a free masterclass that sums up how companies can manage Google and house and also understand them if they had the right point to manage that. And you can find that if you go to bit.li slash about funnel up,

Vinay Koshy 36:45
funnel up as in up? Yes. Okay. No worries, I will include a link to that in the show notes. Pamela, this has been terrific. Thank you so much for doing this.

Pamela Wagner 36:57
Thank you so much when it's been a pleasure, and I hope that everyone listening - that you took a lot away from it.

Vinay Koshy 37:03
If you enjoyed this episode of The predictable b2b success podcast, I would love your support, head on over to the Apple podcast app and give us a rating. And as always, you can catch every episode of The predictable b2b success podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for tuning in.